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Thread: Why would I install ArcSDE with 10.1?

  1. #1
    Alan Toms
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    Question Why would I install ArcSDE with 10.1?

    Hello all,
    Why would I install ArcSDE with 10.1? It seems I can us ArcCatalog to create an enterprise geodatabase without SDE then have all my users use direct connections. What am I missing?

    Thank you
    Alan

  2. #2
    Jake Skinner

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    Default Re: Why would I install ArcSDE with 10.1?

    Hi Alan,

    With ArcGIS 10.1 you can connect to an enterprise database that does not have an SDE geodatabase repository and create feature classes with a native spatial type. For example, you could connect to a SQL Server database and import/create feature classes with the GEOMETRY or GEOGRAPHY spatial type. However, you can only view this feature class. You cannot perform any edits, or have the feature class participate in any geodatabase functionality (such as replication, topology, geometric networks, relationship classes, network datasets, etc). Essentially, you are getting a 'view' only feature class w/o SDE.
    Last edited by JSkinn3; 05-11-2012 at 07:25 AM.

  3. #3
    Russell Brennan
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    Default Re: Why would I install ArcSDE with 10.1?

    Alan,

    To further add on to what Jake said...

    Prior to 10.1 (10.0, 9.x, 8.x) if you wanted to use a Geodatabase with all of the cool Geodatabase functionality (versioning, archiving, topology, relationship classes, terrains, geometric networks, etc) on a DBMS (Oracle, SQL Server, Postgresql, Informix, DB2) you had to perform a few steps.

    First, you needed to install ArcSDE onto your machine, usually this was your DBMS server. This install included the files needed to run ArcSDE command line utilities, the application server, as well as the ArcSDE post installer.

    After installing this onto your machine you would need to run the ArcSDE post installer. The main purpose of this post install was to install the Geodatabase into your enterprise database. This includes all the stored procedures, functions, privileges, and schema needed to provide the functionality I mentioned earlier. The post install could also be used to set up your application server.

    The application server can be used to connect from a client machine to the DBMS/Geodatabase. It is used more or less to manage the connection requests coming in from clients and provide a way for the clients to 'talk' to the DBMS. For a while this was the only way to connect to a Geodatabase. At some point (I think 9.0) we added the ability to make direct connections (2-tier: client-DBMS) to the DBMS. This made the use of the application server (3-tier: client-app server-dbms) optional. For some people this meant they stopped setting up the application server and started using direct connections. Others continued using the application server.

    The ArcSDE command line utilities are a method for the Geodatabase administrator to manage data, users, the application server service.

    Fast forward to 10.1 - We have tried to allow you to manage your Geodatabase completely within ArcGIS applications (ArcCatalog, ArcMap, ArcGIS Server, etc). This is done through the use of dialogues in ArcMap/Catalog and the use of geoprocessing. The first thing we did was to break out the installation of the geodatabase schema tasks into geoprocessing tools. If you want to create an enterprise geodatabase there are now two options. Option 1, you can use the 'Create Enterprise Geodatabase' geoprocessing tool. This tool will create a new empty geodatabase in an existing instance. The second option is to use the 'Enable Enterprise Geodatabase' tool will allow you to install the Geodatabase schema in an already existing instance. The new functionality that Jake mentioned that allows you to now connect to a enterprise database (not a geodatabase) is what allow ArcGIS to then enable geodatabase behavior in your enterprise geodatabase. This second option would be used where you have already set up a database, have user permissions assigned and maybe have loaded some data (essentially converting your database to a geodatabase). The first option would be used if you are starting from nothing.

    Esri recommends using direct connections for making connections to your geodatabase, it is not mandatory that you install the application server.

    Much of the commonly used functionality found in the ArcSDE command line utilities is now available either through ArcGIS applications mentioned earlier or through geoprocessing (disconnecting users, identifying locks, loading data, investigating data, etc). For most users the install of these utilities should not be necessary.

    If you determine that you really need the application server or the command line utilities they are available as a separate install.

    So, this has been a pretty long winded answer to a pretty straightforward question. Answer is, it's not mandatory to install the application server or command line utilities. If you want to take advantage of Geodatabase behavior you do need to run one of the geoprocessing tools to install the Geodatabase.
    Last edited by russellb; 10-18-2012 at 08:34 AM.
    Russell
    esri

  4. #4
    Alan Toms
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    Default Re: Why would I install ArcSDE with 10.1?

    Thank you very much for the education.

    Alan

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    Shannon S.
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    Default Re: Why would I install ArcSDE with 10.1?

    Hi Alan,

    at 10.1 there is no need to install the ArcSDE software unless you need to run an ArcSDE service. If all of your users are making Direct Connections to the geodatabase then the ArcSDE installation is not necessary. As well, most of the functionality offered by ArcSDE commands is now available in ArcGIS Desktop & through GP tools.

    -Shannon

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    Luca Simone
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    Default Re: Why would I install ArcSDE with 10.1?

    the answer from russellb is really clear, but I have another little question:

    what about editing?

    I have some services that I can edit on the web with ArcGIS Server 10.1, should I still use the SDE connection or it is ok to use a direct Connection?
    Is the new ArcGIS Server able to 'replace' or acts as the SDE layer?

  7. #7
    Vince Angelo

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    Default Re: Why would I install ArcSDE with 10.1?

    Direct Connect *is* an ArcSDE connection. This thread is about application server install,
    but the ArcSDE functionality still exists -- It's ArcSDE that provides the basis for versioned
    geodatabases. With Direct Connect, it's just a multi-threaded solution in the ArcGIS client
    instead of a multi-processing solution on the database server.

    - V

  8. #8
    Alaa Kutbi
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    Default Re: Why would I install ArcSDE with 10.1?

    You cannot perform any edits, or have the feature class participate in any geodatabase functionality (such as replication, topology, geometric networks, relationship classes, network datasets, etc). Essentially, you are getting a 'view' only feature class w/o SDE.
    Is the qouted text true if I don't install ArcSDE 10.1?

  9. #9
    Marco Boeringa

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    Default Re: Why would I install ArcSDE with 10.1?

    Quote Originally Posted by 61179 View Post
    Is the qouted text true if I don't install ArcSDE 10.1?
    No, it's true, like Russell Brennan wrote, if you don't Create or Enable Enterprise Geodatabase functionality on your database using the new geoprocessing tools in ArcGIS 10.1.

    It has nothing to do with whether or not ArcSDE is installed on your database server. As Vince says, even if you don't use or install it on your database server, ArcSDE is still part of your client ArcGIS application, there are by default DLLs installed on your own computer with ArcGIS that handle the geodatabase SQL logic ---> That is essentially what ArcSDE is!

    E.g., have a look at your "C:\Program Files (x86)\ArcGIS\Desktop10.X\Bin" folder on your local computer. You will see DLLs like "sde.dll" and "sdesqlsrvr100.dll" etc.

    As soon as you attempt to connect to an ESRI Enterprise Geodatabase, these DLLs will be in use by your client ArcGIS application. There is no way around this when connecting to an ESRI geodatabase - at least for full functionality including editing - ArcSDE is just the component ESRI devised to handle the connection to the database and SQL stuff needed to allow advanced geodatabase functionality like versioning.

    There is nothing special about ArcSDE or these DLLs in this respect, other vendors like Bentley or Autodesk have similar software components in their software to handle connections and SQL stuff related to geospatial databases, they just call it differently.
    Last edited by mboeringa2010; 11-18-2012 at 04:58 AM.

  10. #10
    Alaa Kutbi
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    Default Re: Why would I install ArcSDE with 10.1?

    Just to make sure that I understood you correctly.
    What you are saying is I do not need to install ArcSDE on the database server because the client contains the SDE functionality.

  11. #11
    Alaa Kutbi
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    Default Re: Why would I install ArcSDE with 10.1?

    Another way of sying it:

    - I could use direct connection without ArcSDE installed for two-tier topology.
    - I could use ArcSDE to hide or conceal the database in a three-tier topology.

    am I right?

  12. #12
    Marco Boeringa

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    Default Re: Why would I install ArcSDE with 10.1?

    Quote Originally Posted by 61179 View Post
    Just to make sure that I understood you correctly.
    What you are saying is I do not need to install ArcSDE on the database server because the client contains the SDE functionality.
    Yes, this is true, but in a 2-tier Direct Connect situation, be aware you may need to install other additional software like Oracle Client on the client ArcGIS computer, to get the connection to your database up and running. This is not necessary with a separate server side 3-tier installation of ArcSDE.

    Quote Originally Posted by 61179 View Post
    Another way of saying it:

    - I could use direct connection without ArcSDE installed for two-tier topology.
    - I could use ArcSDE to hide or conceal the database in a three-tier topology.

    am I right?
    Yes, that is about the story, although "hide" is probably a bit overstated, you will always have some database related stuff, like database login with username and password, that is there on the client side. And again be aware that for Oracle, you need to install Oracle Client in a two-tier topology, and that it needs to be a 32-bit version, as ArcGIS is still 32-bit.

    Also, rephrasing the first sentence to:

    - I could use direct connection without ArcSDE installed on a server for two-tier topology.

    is probably a bit more accurate, as, as you now understand, ArcSDE is always installed on the client side as part of the ArcGIS installation.

    ArcSDE is the engine of the "car" called "geodatabase"... Take away the engine entirely, and you will grind to a halt.
    Last edited by mboeringa2010; 11-18-2012 at 09:01 AM.

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    Fiona Hatfield
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    Default Re: Why would I install ArcSDE with 10.1?

    Hi,
    I'm trying to wrap my head around this, as I setup my test server for our upgrade.

    I have set up my server with Windows Server 2008 R2 sp1 and SQL Server 2012 standard edition.
    I have installed ArcGIS desktop 10.1 + sp1
    I ran through the ArcGIS for Server 10.1 sp1 installer but did not create a ArcGIS Server site. (essentially I needed the authorization file for the create enterprise geodatabase tool )

    I then ran the tool > 'Create Enterprise Geodatabase'
    I loaded some data into the geodatabase, registered as versioned.
    When exploring the schema all the SDE and GDB tables are present.

    Am I missing something? Do I need to install ArcSDE 10.1 to get the multi user/versioning/history capabilties of ArcSDE, or as this discussion indicates this is now inherent in the desktop.

    I still am not 100% clear why I would need to install the ArcSDE application server or command line tools.
    If I am managing data via desktop (ArcMap & ArcCatalog) I do not need to install anything further
    If I am managing data via web editing tools I do need to install the ArcSDE application server.

    Thank you for any clarification you can provide.
    Fiona

  14. #14
    Alan Toms
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    Default Re: Why would I install ArcSDE with 10.1?

    Yeah it took me a bit to get it as well. The ArcSDE Command Line tools do not need to be installed unless you want to run stuff with a command line or need to do some major troubleshoot.

    Quote Originally Posted by fleith View Post
    Hi,
    I'm trying to wrap my head around this, as I setup my test server for our upgrade.

    I have set up my server with Windows Server 2008 R2 sp1 and SQL Server 2012 standard edition.
    I have installed ArcGIS desktop 10.1 + sp1
    I ran through the ArcGIS for Server 10.1 sp1 installer but did not create a ArcGIS Server site. (essentially I needed the authorization file for the create enterprise geodatabase tool )

    I then ran the tool > 'Create Enterprise Geodatabase'
    I loaded some data into the geodatabase, registered as versioned.
    When exploring the schema all the SDE and GDB tables are present.

    Am I missing something? Do I need to install ArcSDE 10.1 to get the multi user/versioning/history capabilties of ArcSDE, or as this discussion indicates this is now inherent in the desktop.

    I still am not 100% clear why I would need to install the ArcSDE application server or command line tools.
    If I am managing data via desktop (ArcMap & ArcCatalog) I do not need to install anything further
    If I am managing data via web editing tools I do need to install the ArcSDE application server.

    Thank you for any clarification you can provide.
    Fiona

  15. #15
    Marco Boeringa

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    Default Re: Why would I install ArcSDE with 10.1?

    Quote Originally Posted by fleith View Post
    I then ran the tool > 'Create Enterprise Geodatabase'
    I loaded some data into the geodatabase, registered as versioned.
    When exploring the schema all the SDE and GDB tables are present.
    Hi Fiona,

    Good, this means you are most likely "up-and-running", and can start using ArcGIS to fill and use your ESRI geodatabase

    Quote Originally Posted by fleith View Post
    Am I missing something? Do I need to install ArcSDE 10.1 to get the multi user/versioning/history capabilities of ArcSDE, or as this discussion indicates this is now inherent in the desktop.
    Quote Originally Posted by fleith View Post
    I still am not 100% clear why I would need to install the ArcSDE application server or command line tools.
    No, you do not need to install an ArcSDE 10.1 application server to get full geodatabase functionality, including multi user/versioning/history.

    As I and others have attempted to explain in this thread, ArcSDE's software components in the form of DLLs (Dynamic Link Libraries) form an inherent - and VITAL - part of any "client" ArcGIS application, most prominently "ArcGIS for Desktop" and "ArcGIS for Server" (Server is after all a "client" of the DBMS too, e.g. Oracle, Microsoft SQL Server). They are installed by default as part of the respective software's installation.

    You can't access or run an ESRI geodatabase without these DLLs that incorporate all the functionality and logic of ArcSDE to handle ESRI geodatabases (at least not by re-doing years long software development by ESRI and at great risk of corrupting the database in case you want to edit something).

    Like I wrote in my last post:

    *************************************
    ArcSDE is the "engine" of the "car" called "geodatabase"... Take away the engine entirely, and you will grind to a halt.
    *************************************

    However, if this sentence still leaves you confused, think of the ArcSDE application server running on a remote server being "public transport", and the ArcSDE DLLs on your local computer as part of "ArcGIS for Desktop" as your "private car". Both share an "engine" (THIS IS ARCSDE!), but they are independent and both get you from A to B (allow you to access an ESRI geodatabase with all of it's functionality).

    It is up to you to decide if you want to travel by "public transport" or use your "private car". One mode of transport may be faster than the other (or the other way around), depending on the conditions in your local "area"...

    To also recap some of the very good comments by the ESRI staff in this thread (Russell Brennan in this case):

    "Fast forward to 10.1 - We have tried to allow you to manage your Geodatabase completely within ArcGIS applications (ArcCatalog, ArcMap, ArcGIS Server, etc). This is done through the use of dialogues in ArcMap/Catalog and the use of geoprocessing."

    "If you determine that you really need the application server or the command line utilities they are available as a separate install."


    These comments mean that only in some exceptional cases, you might need one of the command line tools. Until you run into some serious trouble that really can't be dealt with using ArcGIS's new tools, you should be fine using Direct Connect and leaving your setup as it is now.
    Last edited by mboeringa2010; 12-22-2012 at 01:53 AM.

  16. #16
    Brian Kaplan
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    Default Re: Why would I install ArcSDE with 10.1?

    HI All, Please help me understand this for the personal ArcSDE. For the previous item...

    No, you do not need to install an ArcSDE 10.1 application server to get full geodatabase functionality, including multi user/versioning/history.


    So can I still use a personal ArcSDE with Desktop without ArcGIS Server, say on a laptop? If so, do I need to through through the same procedure for creating or enabling a enterprise geodatabase? If, so how. The create geodatabase requires an authorization code for ArcGIS Server.

    Thanks

    Brian Kaplan

  17. #17
    Marco Boeringa

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    Default Re: Why would I install ArcSDE with 10.1?

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianK View Post
    HI All, Please help me understand this for the personal ArcSDE. For the previous item...

    No, you do not need to install an ArcSDE 10.1 application server to get full geodatabase functionality, including multi user/versioning/history.


    So can I still use a personal ArcSDE with Desktop without ArcGIS Server, say on a laptop? If so, do I need to through through the same procedure for creating or enabling a enterprise geodatabase? If, so how. The create geodatabase requires an authorization code for ArcGIS Server.

    Thanks

    Brian Kaplan
    Brian, there is no "personal ArcSDE", there is just the ArcSDE DLL's that incorporate all the functionality to allow a Direct Connect connection on your local personal PC to a (remote) enterprise geodatabase, but that isn't a product called "personal ArcSDE".

    Additionally, if you want to create an enterprise geodatabase (so no file geodatabase), you will need an ArcGIS for Server commercial licence, as ArcSDE / ArcGIS for Server is a sale / non-free product of ESRI, and using an enterprise geodatabase requires this licence, even if you only start using it for testing purposes. That is why you are being asked for an authorization code.

    You may be able to get a temporary trial licence for free for testing purposes, IDK, but as soon as you start deploying it, you will surely need a true paid licence. For that, there are two possible licencing levels: "ArcGIS for Server Enterprise" and "ArcGIS for Server Workgroup", see this page:

    http://www.esri.com/software/arcgis/...rise-workgroup

  18. #18
    Brian Kaplan
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    Default Re: Why would I install ArcSDE with 10.1?

    Quote Originally Posted by mboeringa2010 View Post
    Brian, there is no "personal ArcSDE", there is just the ArcSDE DLL's that incorporate all the functionality to allow a Direct Connect connection on your local personal PC to a (remote) enterprise geodatabase, but that isn't a product called "personal ArcSDE".

    Additionally, if you want to create an enterprise geodatabase (so no file geodatabase), you will need an ArcGIS for Server commercial licence, as ArcSDE / ArcGIS for Server is a sale / non-free product of ESRI, and using an enterprise geodatabase requires this licence, even if you only start using it for testing purposes. That is why you are being asked for an authorization code.

    You may be able to get a temporary trial licence for free for testing purposes, IDK, but as soon as you start deploying it, you will surely need a true paid licence. For that, there are two possible licencing levels: "ArcGIS for Server Enterprise" and "ArcGIS for Server Workgroup", see this page:

    http://www.esri.com/software/arcgis/...rise-workgroup

    Hi Marco,

    Thank you for your reply. I must have used the wrong terminology. The install for ArcGIS Desktop includes an option to enable geodatabase storage on SQL Server Express. Isn't this not an enterprise geodatabase?

  19. #19
    Vince Angelo

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    Default Re: Why would I install ArcSDE with 10.1?

    Enterprise geodatabases, which run in many different flavors of RDBMS software, require an
    ArcGIS for Server Enterprise license. Desktop (formerly known as "Personal") and Workgroup
    multiuser geodatabases (which only run in SQL-Server Express, and are subject to restrictions
    in user count, storage, RAM, and CPU cores) are available at different licensing levels.

    The Multiuser Geodatabase page breaks down the options.

    - V

  20. #20
    Brian Kaplan
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    Default Re: Why would I install ArcSDE with 10.1?

    Quote Originally Posted by vangelo View Post
    Enterprise geodatabases, which run in many different flavors of RDBMS software, require an
    ArcGIS for Server Enterprise license. Desktop (formerly known as "Personal") and Workgroup
    multiuser geodatabases (which only run in SQL-Server Express, and are subject to restrictions
    in user count, storage, RAM, and CPU cores) are available at different licensing levels.

    The Multiuser Geodatabase page breaks down the options.

    - V
    Thank you. I found that the ArcGIS desktop menu included the ArcSDE install and the ability to take an existing SQL Server Express database and convert it to a geodatabase. Brian.

  21. #21
    Vince Angelo

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    Default Re: Why would I install ArcSDE with 10.1?

    Desktop multi-user geodatabases are to Enterprise ArcSDE as "Physics for Social Science Majors"
    is to "Intermediate Electricity and Magnetism" -- the flavor is there, but a good deal of the rigor
    is missing.

    - V

  22. #22
    Ariel Lomes
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    Default Re: Why would I install ArcSDE with 10.1?

    I have a similar question, regarding Oracle.

    Some of you here said that if I do not install ArcSDE application on the server, and use only ArcGIS for Desktop, I'll need to install an Oracle Client (32bit ofcourse) on each desktop that will direct connect to the geodatabase via ArcCatalog/ArcMap.

    However, I need to be able to connect to the geodatabase (direct connection or application connection) via a desktop without an Oracle client installed. For that, I'll need to install the ArcSDE application on the server, correct?

    Also, will I need to use application connection or a direct connection?

    Thanks,

    Ariel.

  23. #23
    Marco Boeringa

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    Default Re: Why would I install ArcSDE with 10.1?

    Quote Originally Posted by ArielLo View Post
    Some of you here said that if I do not install ArcSDE application on the server, and use only ArcGIS for Desktop, I'll need to install an Oracle Client (32bit ofcourse) on each desktop that will direct connect to the geodatabase via ArcCatalog/ArcMap.

    However, I need to be able to connect to the geodatabase (direct connection or application connection) via a desktop without an Oracle client installed. For that, I'll need to install the ArcSDE application on the server, correct?

    Also, will I need to use application connection or a direct connection?
    Ariel, if you need the full geodatabase functionality but can't install the Oracle Client, than yes, your only option is to install and run an ArcSDE Application Server (which isn't a bad thing or so ).

    In this scenario, the connection is called an Application Server connection, so you won't be using Direct Connect.

    Please note you need to add the following line to your Windows services file of your client PC running ArcGIS for Desktop per installation instructions for the ArcSDE Application Server. Please note this has to be done on each machine connecting to your Application Server!:

    esri_sde 5151/tcp

    The Windows services file is simply called "services" without a file extension and in Windows 7 located in:

    C:\Windows\System32\drivers\etc

  24. #24
    Richard Watson

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    Default Re: Why would I install ArcSDE with 10.1?

    Quote Originally Posted by mboeringa2010 View Post
    Please note you need to add the following line to your Windows services file of your client PC running ArcGIS for Desktop per installation instructions for the ArcSDE Application Server. Please note this has to be done on each machine connecting to your Application Server!:

    esri_sde 5151/tcp

    The Windows services file is simply called "services" without a file extension and in Windows 7 located in:
    C:\Windows\System32\drivers\etc
    Is this really necessary on client machines? I ask because I have never done this and used the SDE Application Server from Windows extensively. My understanding, which could be wrong, is that this needs to be on machine on which the SDE Application Server is installed.

  25. #25
    Vince Angelo

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    Default Re: Why would I install ArcSDE with 10.1?

    The services file on the application server must be modified because the service
    is started by name. It's good practice to distribute a modified services file among
    clients, but it's only necessary if those clients will also lookup by name (if you
    specify the port number, then it isn't necessary).

    - V

  26. #26
    Ariel Lomes
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    Default Re: Why would I install ArcSDE with 10.1?

    Quote Originally Posted by mboeringa2010 View Post
    Ariel, if you need the full geodatabase functionality but can't install the Oracle Client, than yes, your only option is to install and run an ArcSDE Application Server (which isn't a bad thing or so ).

    In this scenario, the connection is called an Application Server connection, so you won't be using Direct Connect.

    Please note you need to add the following line to your Windows services file of your client PC running ArcGIS for Desktop per installation instructions for the ArcSDE Application Server. Please note this has to be done on each machine connecting to your Application Server!:

    esri_sde 5151/tcp

    The Windows services file is simply called "services" without a file extension and in Windows 7 located in:

    C:\Windows\System32\drivers\etc

    Thanks!

    This is exactly what I did, works perfectly.

    I have a question though - I've heared a rumor that ESRI will probably eventually stop supporting Application Server Connection, is that true?

    What is the "recommended" method of connection by ESRI?

    Thanks again,

    Ariel.

  27. #27
    Marco Boeringa

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    Default Re: Why would I install ArcSDE with 10.1?

    Quote Originally Posted by ArielLo View Post
    I have a question though - I've heared a rumor that ESRI will probably eventually stop supporting Application Server Connection, is that true?

    What is the "recommended" method of connection by ESRI?
    Rumours are rumours, and since I don't work for ESRI, I can say nothing sensible about it. From a technical point of view, I see little reason why ESRI would decide to abandon the Application Server option completely. As much of the code base for the Application Server executables is the same as for the Direct Connect DLL drivers (see Derek Law's slightly older but still relevant Enterprise Geodatabase 101 here on the ESRI website), there isn't a whole lot to win by abandoning the Application Server option.

    From a "support" point of view, there may be reasons, as it seems the Application Server option seems to be a bit more difficult to get up-and-running for some users, and causing more questions and confusion requiring ESRI intervention.

    As for "recommended", ESRI made Direct Connect default, so I guess this would qualify as the "recommended" option. I doubt though, Vince would give you such an answer, as he probably justly and more precisely will tell you it all depends on the configuration of your specific client/server hard- and software LAN network environment.

    As I said before in this thread:

    "It is up to you to decide if you want to travel by "public transport" or use your "private car". One mode of transport may be faster than the other (or the other way around), depending on the conditions in your local "area".."
    Last edited by mboeringa2010; 01-21-2013 at 02:19 AM.

  28. #28
    Marco Boeringa

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    Default Re: Why would I install ArcSDE with 10.1?

    Also, in terms of Application Server versus Direct Connect, and why ESRI may have decided to make Direct Connect default, it may have to do with a number of (or probably many) clients of ESRI having seen a significant rise in the number of concurrent users using enterprise geodatabases (and not just through cached webservices).

    Where in the past for most organizations it used to be that only a few highly active editors / viewers concurrently accessed the database (e.g. maximum a dozen) through ArcMap, now for some shops maybe dozens or even hundreds might access it.

    In that scenario, Direct Connect is probably the best option.

    However, if you still are within a mid-size organization, with maybe a (few) dozen maximum active users at any point in time, and have a beefy modern 8+ core database server / Application Server with a tens or hundreds of Gigabytes big enterprise geodatabase, than Application Server connections may still be very much a valid choice. In fact, the server with it's specialized high performance hardware and processors (e.g. Xeon), may outperform your desktop in processing the GIS data, especially in cases of network bandwidth constraints.

    Also, this remark by D.E.Wright on the GIS StackExchange Forum may be of interest:

    “There are some very good reasons to use an ArcSDE Server Engine (Edit: Should be ArcSDE Application Server in official ESRI terminology), the first being the load. When you utilize a ArcSDE (Edit: Application) Server Service you are taking the bulk of that data load off the database server and queuing it versus relying on just your local machine to store all that temp data.
    One thing you will see especially with a MSSQL server when you make your initial database connection in a MXD is that ArcGIS does a 'SELECT *' (as seen in your query analyzer and logs on your DB Server) against that table/feature-class. Now, this can be a huge impact if you have very large datasets; the ArcSDE Service/Process helps in this by aiding in the request of the appropriate data scope.
    Now as we have all gotten bigger machines, with more RAM its much easier to just load everything into the current session and run with it; but don't just discount the idea of using the service just because the ArcGIS docs say you 'don't need it' anymore, versus when you probably could/should use it.”
    Last edited by mboeringa2010; 01-21-2013 at 06:11 AM.

  29. #29
    Stacey Maples
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    Default Re: Why would I install ArcSDE with 10.1?

    I think the length and complexity of this thread make a VERY good case for someone overhauling BOTH the ArcSDE and ArcGIS Server installation documentation. This represents a significant departure from previous architectures and not all of us have the luxury of teams of devs to help us sort out the new 'paradigm.' I just wasted about 2 days trying to figure out how to work with the new iteration of SDE, only to find that I no longer need it from a forum posting, rather than ESRI documentation. This is for a directed study with a student interested in learning to manage these types of architectures. He is quickly learning that, perhaps, the greatest takeaway will be forum mining skills.

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  30. #30
    Hal Watson
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    Default Re: Why would I install ArcSDE with 10.1?

    I have to admit, as someone who has been managing SDE installs since 9.1, I didn't pick up on this paradigm shift until a few days ago when I did a test 10.1 on Oracle install, and realized that with Toad and the Python interpreter in ArcCatalog I could pretty much do everything I needed to get the enterprise geodatabase created, a user-schema geodatabase created, and the .sde connection files to access them created. I think that is a good step forward for basic installs. If I can take the SDE Application server out of the picture, that is a big time saver. The toolbox tools are a little rough, but with arcpy you can get the job done.

    It would be great to have access to some more of the sde app server command line tools available via the python arcpy module. I'm thinking especially of the tools like sdeconfig and sdedbtune, which still seem necessary to me. I hope that is in the works. If I'm missing something on that front, I would love to be educated.

    Looking at it now, the progression makes sense and I'm glad for the new options.

  31. #31
    Yukun Xing
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    Default Re: Why would I install ArcSDE with 10.1?

    I haven't had much experience with ArcSDE or ArcGIS server in general, and I have one question. While I was reading through the tutorial on ArcGIS API for Silverlight (I believe that was before 10.1 was released) it was mentioned somewhere that to be able to edit a feature class using a web application, the feature class must be stored in an SDE database and published as a feature service. Is the part regarding SDE still true at 10.1?

    Our office is finally getting an ArcGIS sever (Standard Edition at the Workgroup level) so we can play with it and look into web map application development. The system admin is going to set it up soon, and the ArcGIS Server 10.1 SP1 installer is all we've got (no Web Adaptor or ArcSDE installer/setup). Is the following scenario for testing purposes possible? If not, what else do we need to install/configure, or what is the alternative?

    Install ArcGIS for Sever on sever A;
    Using ArcGIS for Desktop on a workstation, create a file geodatabase on either sever A or some other server B on the same office LAN, and create a feature class in the FGDB and publish it as a feature service;
    Create a web mapping application and host it on server A (separate IIS set up necessary?);
    Display, query, and edit the feature class through the web application over the internet.

    If this scenario is possible, does ArcGIS Server create a copy of the feature class and serve the copy when I publish the FC as a service? If that is true, will I be able to access/edit this copy in ArcGIS for Desktop on the workstation?
    Last edited by xyknewtry; 03-26-2013 at 02:10 PM.

  32. #32
    Jake Skinner

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    Default Re: Why would I install ArcSDE with 10.1?

    Hi Yukon,

    You will need the feature class stored in SDE in order to create a feature service. The ArcGIS for Server Workgroup (Standard Edition) comes with SQL Server Express. You should be able to download the installation files from the customer care portal:

    http://resources.arcgis.com/en/help/...00000010000000

    After you install SQL Server Express, you will just need to enable SQL Server Express to store geodatabases:

    http://resources.arcgis.com/en/help/...000000w000000/

    Additional helpful links:

    Setting up a connection:
    http://resources.arcgis.com/en/help/...000002z000000/

    Adding a database server to Desktop:
    http://resources.arcgis.com/en/help/...000001s000000/

    Creating a geodatabase on a database server:
    http://resources.arcgis.com/en/help/...000000m000000/

  33. #33
    Yukun Xing
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    Default Re: Why would I install ArcSDE with 10.1?

    Quote Originally Posted by JSkinn3 View Post
    You should be able to download the installation files from the customer care portal:

    http://resources.arcgis.com/en/help/...00000010000000
    Thank you for the replay Jake, very helpful information. If we have the ArcGIS Sever 10.1 SP1 installer, does it typically include the installation files you mentioned for SQL express (We haven't started installing yet)? I'm hoping it's the case, as due to the structure of our organization, our office is not directly involved in software purchasing/management. I logged into my customer portal with our customer ID, but there is no order history, and I don't see anything for download.

  34. #34
    Karyn Tareen
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    Default Re: Why would I install ArcSDE with 10.1?

    Quote Originally Posted by JSkinn3 View Post
    You will need the feature class stored in SDE in order to create a feature service.
    To confirm, a direct connect is sufficient for a feature service - as long as the database supporting the feature service has the SDE tables within it, correct?

  35. #35
    Marco Boeringa

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    Default Re: Why would I install ArcSDE with 10.1?

    Quote Originally Posted by ktareen View Post
    To confirm, a direct connect is sufficient for a feature service - as long as the database supporting the feature service has the SDE tables within it, correct?
    Karyn,

    ArcGIS for Server is, just like ArcGIS for Desktop, fully capable of using both an ArcSDE Application Server, or Direct Connect, for connecting to an enterprise geodatabase.

    From a functionality point of view, there is absolutely no difference between using an Application Server or Direct Connect. So yes, "Direct Connect" is sufficient for ArcGIS for Server to create (editable) Feature Services.

  36. #36
    Marco Boeringa

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    Default Re: Why would I install ArcSDE with 10.1?

    Quote Originally Posted by stacemaples View Post
    I think the length and complexity of this thread make a VERY good case for someone overhauling BOTH the ArcSDE and ArcGIS Server installation documentation.
    Well, it isn't an overhaul, but I now published a document describing "The ESRI Geodatabase Framework" (as I call it and see it) in another forum thread. It may be a good read for people interested in the contents of this thread and help out with a better understanding of 2-tier Direct Connect and 3-tier Application Server connections to geodatabases:

    "The ESRI Geodatabase Framework" PDF

    Please post any comments to the document in that thread and not here.

    Marco

  37. #37
    Richard Watson

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    Default Re: Why would I install ArcSDE with 10.1?

    http://forums.arcgis.com/threads/850...-10.1-and-10.2

    "ArcGIS 10.2 will be the last major release to include the ArcSDE application server. Esri
    encourages those that have deployed an ArcSDE application server to move to new
    database connections introduced in 10.1 as part of their next upgrade."

  38. #38
    Marco Boeringa

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    Default Re: Why would I install ArcSDE with 10.1?

    Quote Originally Posted by rlwatson View Post
    http://forums.arcgis.com/threads/850...-10.1-and-10.2

    "ArcGIS 10.2 will be the last major release to include the ArcSDE application server. Esri
    encourages those that have deployed an ArcSDE application server to move to new
    database connections introduced in 10.1 as part of their next upgrade."
    Yes, I saw this too. Interesting, I had not yet seen this updated deprecation plan of the 7th of May including the changes expected for 10.2 and beyond and the now officially announced deprecation of the ArcSDE Application Server, ArcSDE Command Line tools and ArcSDE C/Java SDKs after 10.2.

    Not unexpected, but still, I wonder if there might be future extension for this deprecation... To many people may still depend on it and not yet be in a situation to make all the necessary changes in time. Just look at VBA... extended to 10.2 while initially announced deprecated at 10.1...

    Anyway, I am in the process of creating two updated Geodatabase Framework diagrams that will incorporate and show this deprecation to make it more understandable. One diagram will depict the situation at 10.2, the other the situation beyond (well, at least as far as my "crystal ball" in the form of this deprecation plan allows me...).

  39. #39
    Timothy Hayes
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    Default Re: Why would I install ArcSDE with 10.1?

    I have found it easier to do the following using SQL Server Management Studio 2008 R2:

    In assigning users, roles, and permissions inside ArcCatalog, you get a dialog box, but no list of choices for the types of roles/permissions you can assign. In SQL Server Management Studio, you do this and their dialog box provides you a list of check boxes. You choose which box(es) to check for roles/permissions. It also verifies that you have the correct syntax and username does in fact exist on the network. Using ArcCatalog, you would never know this as it does not verify the user name to see if you typed it correctly or exists.

    I found myself having to use a little of both together to manage our Geodatabases: SQL Server Management Studio and ArcCatalog Geodatabase Administration.

    I only use ArcCatalog Geodatabase Administration for:

    1) Creating my schema (using X-Ray Geodatabase, a great tool from ESRI!) - anyone who is managing Enterprise Geodatabase should use X-Ray Geodatabase!

    2) Editing my Geodatabase (Includes Post and Reconcile operations)

    3) Setting up Versioning

    4) Creating/Managing Replicas

    5) Archiving

    5) Seeing who is connected, and identifying Locks



    I only use SQL Server Management Studio to:

    1) Set up my Instance

    2) Create Database (name only, not the schema)

    3) Assign Users/Roles/Permissions


    I use SDE, but this runs in the background allowing me to do what I need to do.

    Personally, I found the SDE Command Line to be obnoxious, exceedingly difficult, and cumbersome. We are a two person, very overworked GIS shop and do not have the time to learn the commands and syntax. I say use the dialog and check boxes it will make your life much easier.

  40. #40
    Jeremy Smith
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    Default Re: Why would I install ArcSDE with 10.1?

    So when upgrading to 10.1 from 9.3.1, and not wanting to install the 10.1 ArcSDE Server Application, do I have to uninstall ArcSDE 9.3.1 from my existing Geodatabase? Then simply run the "Upgrade Geodatabase" tool in ArcCatalog to get it to 10.1?

  41. #41
    Marco Boeringa

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    Default Re: Why would I install ArcSDE with 10.1?

    Quote Originally Posted by vopgis View Post
    So when upgrading to 10.1 from 9.3.1, and not wanting to install the 10.1 ArcSDE Server Application, do I have to uninstall ArcSDE 9.3.1 from my existing Geodatabase ?
    I guess you meant to say:

    "... do I have to uninstall the ArcSDE 9.3.1 Application Server from my database server..." ?

    If so: yes. Of course, the geodatabase itself with the entire ArcSDE Repository and the ArcSDE and geodatabase system tables therein, should be left untouched, otherwise nothing is left to upgrade...

    Quote Originally Posted by vopgis View Post
    So when upgrading to 10.1 from 9.3.1, and not wanting to install the 10.1 ArcSDE Server Application, do I have to uninstall ArcSDE 9.3.1 from my existing Geodatabase? Then simply run the "Upgrade Geodatabase" tool in ArcCatalog to get it to 10.1?
    Don't forget you need to install an appropriate database client. Without client, you won't be able to connect any more once your Application Server is down!

    There may also be an extra issue if you decided to migrate to a new server and in the process go from a 32 bit to 64 bit environment... There are descriptions for that in the Help, but it isn't an easy task.

  42. #42
    Jeremy Smith
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    Default Re: Why would I install ArcSDE with 10.1?

    Yes, my apologies, I meant the server. We are currently at 64-bit so no need to upgrade there. Regarding the database client I'm not sure what you mean? We're currently connecting via ArcReader and a few web apps which are already migrated to the Direct Connect method. Wouldn't the database client simply be installed with ArcGIS Desktop or ArcReader? Or is there something else I should be looking at? My main concern was what to uninstall. But, looking more clearly, I would have to uninstall ArcSDE anyway because we have a desktop install on our server as well which of course would also need an upgrade. Thank you for the clarification.

  43. #43
    Marco Boeringa

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    Default Re: Why would I install ArcSDE with 10.1?

    Quote Originally Posted by vopgis View Post
    We're currently connecting via ArcReader and a few web apps which are already migrated to the Direct Connect method.
    If you can already use Direct Connect in ArcReader on your local PC, than you must have the required database client installed. So you shouldn´t have to worry about it.

    More info on this Help page:
    http://resources.arcgis.com/en/help/...00000009000000

    Again, note the database client is only required in Direct Connect, Application Server connections do not use the database client. But since ESRI plans to phase out the Application Server, the database client can better be assumed compulsory.

    Quote Originally Posted by vopgis View Post
    Wouldn't the database client simply be installed with ArcGIS Desktop or ArcReader?
    The database client is a separate install, see the first Help page linked above. You can download it either from the database vendor, or the ESRI Customer Care portal.

    But your IT department is likely to have already installed such a client in their default drive-images in case database connections are used by other non-GIS desktop applications in your organization.

  44. #44
    matthew whitehead
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    Default Re: Why would I install ArcSDE with 10.1?

    Quote Originally Posted by mboeringa2010 View Post
    I guess you meant to say:

    "... do I have to uninstall the ArcSDE 9.3.1 Application Server from my database server..." ?

    If so: yes. Of course, the geodatabase itself with the entire ArcSDE Repository and the ArcSDE and geodatabase system tables therein, should be left untouched, otherwise nothing is left to upgrade...



    Don't forget you need to install an appropriate database client. Without client, you won't be able to connect any more once your Application Server is down!

    There may also be an extra issue if you decided to migrate to a new server and in the process go from a 32 bit to 64 bit environment... There are descriptions for that in the Help, but it isn't an easy task.
    I am upgrading from 9.3.1 to 10.1 and just want to make sure I have my ducks in a row. Are these the general steps I need to take:

    1. Make backups, check permissions, etc, etc
    2. Uninstall ArGIS Server 9.3.1 including ArcSDE from the server(and delete ArsSDE services)
    3. Install ArcGIS for Server 10.1 on the server(?)
    4. Upgrade from client via ArcCatalog

    I guess my confusion is when reading through the steps on http://resources.arcgis.com/en/help/...00000m6000000/
    It says that I need to install the current release of ArcGIS client on a computer that can directly connect. I've got that and checked the connection. Do I need ArcGIS for Server 10.1 installed on my server? I assume the answer is yes but I'm not reading that explicitly in those steps. I just see to get rid of the old 9.3.1 install.
    Last edited by mcwhiteh; 10-14-2013 at 08:43 AM.

  45. #45
    Marco Boeringa

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    Default Re: Why would I install ArcSDE with 10.1?

    - You don't need to install an ArcSDE Application Server (Also called "ArcSDE service" in ESRI documentation) if you want to connect to your geodatabase, use Direct Connect instead.

    The ArcSDE Application Server will no longer be available after ArcGIS 10.2, so it is highly recommended to switch to Direct Connect at this point in time.

    - You may need an ArcGIS for Server installation if you use it to create webservices (ESRI Map, Image, Feature Services or WMS, WFS or any of the other service types it supports). If you're not interested in serving your own webservices, you don't need ArcGIS for Server.

    - Use the new geoprocessing tools in the Geodatabase Administration toolset in ArcGIS for Desktop for management and creation of your ESRI enterprise geodatabase. See for example the Blog article by ESRI's Melissa J linked below, and the second link to the Geodatabase Administration toolset:

    Do This, Not That! – Alternatives to using SDE command line tools:
    http://blogs.esri.com/esri/supportce....YiYFmz5c.dpuf

    Geodatabase Administration toolset
    An overview of the Geodatabase Administration toolset

    You may find it helpful to read these two PDF documents I created:

    The ESRI Geodatabase Framework
    http://forums.arcgis.com/threads/836...l=1#post295462
    The ESRI Geodatabase Framework - Future developments at ArcGIS 10.2 and 11
    http://forums.arcgis.com/threads/836...l=1#post303021

  46. #46
    Vince Angelo

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    Default Re: Why would I install ArcSDE with 10.1?

    Quote Originally Posted by mcwhiteh View Post
    Do I need ArcGIS for Server 10.1 installed on my server? I assume the answer is yes but I'm not reading that explicitly in those steps. I just see to get rid of the old 9.3.1 install.
    It's certainly not required (which is the main point of this thread). Whether you "need" it depends
    on how bound you are to using an application server. It won't be an option after 10.2, so at some
    point you'll need to switch over to Direct Connect exclusively.

    - V

  47. #47
    matthew whitehead
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    Default Re: Why would I install ArcSDE with 10.1?

    Quote Originally Posted by mboeringa2010 View Post
    - You don't need to install an ArcSDE Application Server (Also called "ArcSDE service" in ESRI documentation) if you want to connect to your geodatabase, use Direct Connect instead.

    The ArcSDE Application Server will no longer be available after ArcGIS 10.2, so it is highly recommended to switch to Direct Connect at this point in time.

    - You may need an ArcGIS for Server installation if you use it to create webservices (ESRI Map, Image, Feature Services or WMS, WFS or any of the other service types it supports). If you're not interested in serving your own webservices, you don't need ArcGIS for Server.

    - Use the new geoprocessing tools in the Geodatabase Administration toolset in ArcGIS for Desktop for management and creation of your ESRI enterprise geodatabase. See for example the Blog article by ESRI's Melissa J linked below, and the second link to the Geodatabase Administration toolset:

    Do This, Not That! – Alternatives to using SDE command line tools:
    http://blogs.esri.com/esri/supportce....YiYFmz5c.dpuf

    Geodatabase Administration toolset
    An overview of the Geodatabase Administration toolset

    You may find it helpful to read these two PDF documents I created:

    The ESRI Geodatabase Framework
    http://forums.arcgis.com/threads/836...l=1#post295462
    The ESRI Geodatabase Framework - Future developments at ArcGIS 10.2 and 11
    http://forums.arcgis.com/threads/836...l=1#post303021

    Thanks you. We use direct connections so no need for the application server. I have upgraded my 9.3.1 database to 10.1 successfully. I currently have server 9.3.1 installed on the same server the DBMS and geodatabases are stored on. I will likely retroactively upgrade to server 10.2 (as well as upgrading client apps to 10.2 and subsequently gdbs to 10.2) in the near future.

  48. #48
    Stephanie Snider
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    Default Re: Why would I install ArcSDE with 10.1?

    I wanted to chime in incase this point had not been made clear. There's a difference between an enterprise geodatabase and ArcSDE application service. You can have an enterprise geodatabase (Example: SQL Server or Oracle) and also have ArcSDE installed for an application service. Or you can have an enterprise geodatabase and not have ArcSDE installed. Both options require an ArcGIS Server Basic license.

    At ArcGIS Desktop 10.0, the default connection type to an enterprise geodatabase assumed the application service was installed - although ESRI recommended using a direct connect at "best practices". At 10.1 and above, ArcGIS Desktop uses the direct connection by default. You still have the option of connecting using an application service, but the setup is hidden in the ArcToolbox. After 10.2, ArcSDE will no longer be available...so you will have to use a direct connect to get to your enterprise geodatabase. Hope this helps.
    Stephanie Snider, GIS/Database Manager
    Nevada Division of State Lands

  49. #49
    Kevin Gooss
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    Default Re: Why would I install ArcSDE with 10.1?

    I would like to add my 2 cents to this post based on my experiences of the past few days.
    In the past i relied heavily on sde views - take a spatial table, create a view on it, register that with sde using the command line tools and then modify the sql of the view to join in several other, non-spatial, tables.
    The resulting 'sde view' is seen by esri in the same way a feature class would be.
    This is a very effective tool and we use it extensively.
    At 10.1, the idea was that sde command line tools are being mothballed. 'Most' everything you need to do will be available in Catalog, ArcMap and/or python.
    Well that is not entirely true in the case of spatial views.

    At 10.1 you can make a spatial view in ArcCatalog and it works great. So we did that, and we based ags services on map layers based on those views. Then a few days ago we started seeing issues. The services failed. ags error logs stated that ags could not recognize the geometry type of the layers in those services.
    The issue is that our data expires over time and we remove it from the view via a sql where clause. When that view is empty ags/sde no longer recognize it as being a view - it is just a table. So our view sql may say the value in some field must be less than 4 hours old. If no data is added to that table over 4 hours it will be empty. The service will fail and our app throws errors. Not good.

    The answer we are getting now is to use the command line tool to create the views and make sure they are registered with sde.
    Apparently with the new style views the geometry metadata is gathered on the fly from the first record in the table.
    That makes sense to me. But what about when there are no records? Seems like a better system would have been to get the metadata from the only spatial column in the view - the one in the base table - which is a feature class. A feature class can be empty and sde/ags still knows it is a feature class.

    Anyway, sde command line is not ready for the closet yet.

  50. #50
    Vince Angelo

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    Default Re: Why would I install ArcSDE with 10.1?

    In fact, you have been encouraged to "register your view with ArcSDE". This is significantly
    different from "use the command line tool to create the views." I strongly discourage anyone
    from using 'sdetable -o create_view' ever again, particularly with native or ST_GEOMETRY
    spatial columns.

    In your particular use, registration of the existing view is necessary (it is not possible for a query
    cursor to mine the database query plan to extract the information you expect it to have), but that
    only requires 'sdelayer -o register', not recreation of the existing views (be sure to use 'sdelayer
    -o describe_long' to extract the SRID of the base table for the -R flag in the register options).

    Hopefully, there will be a ArcPy tool that will register views with geodatabase metadata once
    that which was once ArcSDE is gone.

    - V
    Last edited by vangelo; 11-05-2013 at 08:16 AM.

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